Have you heard similar arguments?
“It takes more faith to be an atheist”
“atheist have faith”
Some theists seem REALLY wound up by the word faith and want to apply it to to atheists. It has got to be one of the sillier arguments I have heard, you don’t need to look very far for the uptick in this argument, just check out the Atheist/Atheism tags here on WordPress.
Honest, I don’t have an issue with the word, I probably use it from time to time. The difference is, I don’t use it as a replacement for “Trust” or “Confidence”. I just wonder about the bizarre fascination with it.
[Queue George Michael “Faith”]…or not
I recently replied to a blog that defined the word “Faith” to Hebrews 11.1 and I may not be using the exact quote but it was something along the lines of “Now faith is the substance (hupostasis) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (King James) This blogger was adamant that this, the bible definition, was THE definition of “Faith”… I really have no issues with this definition, really, I don’t…. well, except for the part that states “evidence of things not seen”, I can have faith (<– see, I used the word!) that there is chocolate in a closed kitchen cabinet door… but that does not mean, because i have faith, that is evidence of the chocolate!
But wait, the New International Version says “Now faith is confidence (hupostasis) in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.” and sure, I can see how faith is based on “Confidence” but it really doesn’t offer assurances that… the chocolate is behind that cabinet door.
Then I got to thinking, Hebrews 11.1 was originally written in Greek! What is the Etymology behind the word “Faith”? It is a 13th Century Middle English word (1)(2). How can the bible reference “Faith” if it wasn’t a word at the time Hebews was written? The sentence that refers to faith is actually the word “πίστις”. I don’t read Greek so I’m not sure what that means?!?! but thanks to a bible translator, the greek word is “Pistis” which translates to the following words: faith, belief, firm persuasion, assurance, firm conviction, faithfulness. I see the use of faith is prevalent here, since we know this word did not come about until the 13th century…. so I researched further!
It turns out, Pistis is the Greek Goddess and perhaps daughter of Zeus! She was the personified spirit (daimona) of trust, honesty and good faith. I’m being totally honest! Read Here! Judging by some of the pictures on Google, come on atheists! you got to have faith! I mean, Pistis!
You may have seen the word “hupostasis” also referenced above, ugh, don’t get me started on that, lol
I’ll cover some of the arguments on Atheist faith in another blog.
Story4today 
I’m always fascinated by the way believers equivocate on this notion. They often remind non-believers that we have faith in something, and they do so often in precisely the sense of confidence that you mention. To them though, it’s the same thing, not just the same word with a different meaning, literally the same thing.
…our differences are bigger than the gods between us.
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Exactly. I am a bit fascinated why they think this is a big point to debate. Originally, I wanted to write something serious about what theists point to that atheists have faith in but then I got too creative and started to joke around. Part II coming up soon 🙂
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If religion were true there’d be no need for faith. Faith is religions (necessitated) self-defence mechanism and without it belief would simply crumble under the fallacy of its unsubstantiated claims. Religion knows this and that is why faith is promoted as a virtue whereby the faithful are rewarded for enduring what is called, “tests of faith.” That is to say, the faithful are encouraged to remain ignorant, for without ignorance belief would be impossible. Faith and evidentialism cannot coexist. If something can be believed based on evidence it cannot also be believed on faith, and yet faith is the cornerstone of all religion belief. They are antithetical. The minute evidence appears faith is cast aside in favour of evidence.
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If I could give you two likes, I would do it for this post! Lots of good points.
Whenever I get challenged, I simply ask for evidence, the evidence I get is just wrapped around faith or the presupposition that there is a god. No! you can’t prove a god by appealing to a god.
and exactly, if there was evidence for something, you wouldn’t need faith.
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I have ‘Faith’ that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow. I could be proved wrong, even though it’s done it every day for 4 Billion years. I just don’t have faith that “Your God” will cause it to happen. 😯
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I’m sorry I missed your reply!
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Think nothing of it. Most of us bloggers have other things to do, which sometimes command our attention. 🙂
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Is it really an issue of faith?
Many of us didn’t start out being disciples of Jesus. For me it has been a journey. My guess is that for you it either has been or will be.
You have great reasons you believe what you believe. I can attack those reasons directly but that probably won’t help you radically change how you are thinking about this. I want to help if you are willing to consider a journey.
Here are some steps to consider if you want to start. If you don’t, God bless you. We all need to change. LIFE is at stake.
Come to know Jesus as your Saviour — I have missed God’s goal (aka sin). It is a gift from God that Jesus paid the price for me. Jesus saves me from death and brings me into life. LIFE starts with accepting Jesus as having saved me. I now have life and know the author of life. If you haven’t started, this is the first step.
Consider this about Jesus: “This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior the Messiah Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the good news.” ~Apostle Paul (2 Timothy 1)
Commit to Jesus as your Master — Jesus is King of God’s country. Jesus is in charge. I am not. Jesus is my Master. I am His slave. This is tough, but it is essential. Nothing happens without this change in how I think and act.
Begin to radically change how you think and change your mind — This is known as repenting. Commit to how to live a new LIFE. The truth is you are wrong about lots of things. I am as well. What if you are wrong about LIFE? Please step back. You are in fact very wrong. I had to change how I was thinking. You do as well.
Become a disciple — Salvation is the start, not the end. Jesus calls me to learn (aka be a disciple). One important part of learning that Jesus is King of God’s country is to learn about LIFE. This is journey. I radically changed how I think, and I learn from Jesus, who is King of God’s country.
Hear what Jesus says — When you hear Jesus, you hear about LIFE. Jesus is clear. Read the four Good News books (aka Gospels); Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Read them again. Read them every day. Get what Jesus is saying into your heart and soul. Talk with God, your Father and with Jesus. Ask to hear the truth. Jesus is the TRUTH.
Jesus (and God) say our job is to love — That means we are to love LIFE. There aren’t any exceptions. Jesus does not say it is okay to love everyone but the atheist. Jesus is clear He is the way to God.
Consider the Apostle John: “We know that we have passed from death to LIFE because we love our brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.” It is easy to think it is okay to kill the unborn when you “remain in death” yourself. This isn’t being harsh. Love requires some pain in recognizing our own condition.
Is it really an issue of faith?
The big final thing is the “day of judgement” — I will stand before God. So will you. I will answer for love and LIFE. Will I hear “Good and faithful slave” from Jesus? Will you?
So what will happen? I am confident, based on this journey, you will decide in favor of LIFE.
If you don’t, please let me know what else I can do to be of help.
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Nice to hear from you!
I actually learned of the teachings of Jesus and the Christian religion at an early age and I guess I could say I was a disciple of Jesus without having a full comprehension of the religious teachings being taught to me. When I became aware of my own thoughts and beliefs, I found that I was rejecting these teachings and found them very far fetched.
Of course you can attack my reasoning, I have experienced that exact sentiment since I first started to question my Christian beliefs. Without saying a word against Christians, I was always challenged when I stated I had my doubts about it. When I first came out as an Atheist… boy… I was challenged so many times with philosophical, cosmological..etc statements and there was a demand for me to answer for it! …all I did was reject what I didn’t believe in. After being challenged, I figured it was high time to figure out my own answers to the “arguments”. If you want to help… take a journey of your own.
“Here are some steps to consider if you want to start. If you don’t, God bless you. We all need to change. LIFE is at stake.”
As a former Christian, I understand that “God bless you” is a well wish, so I must answer “amituofo”, this is the name of the Amitabha Buddha, in this usage it is a greeting. My life is at stake?!!? From the time we are born, we are one day closer to dying. While I wish to live forever, I understand one day I will become part of the earth.
“Come to know Jesus as your Saviour — I have missed God’s goal (aka sin). It is a gift from God that Jesus paid the price for me. Jesus saves me from death and brings me into life. LIFE starts with accepting Jesus as having saved me. I now have life and know the author of life. If you haven’t started, this is the first step.”
I have come to know Jesus when I was young and outside of Christianity, I study world religions and now have a better concept of both the historical Jesus and what the Christians believe him to be. You should learn about other religions such as Buddhism, Tao, Judaism, Hindu, Islam..etc. But don’t stop there, learn about the history of all religions and how the foundations of those religions came about. I like Buddhist Philosophy myself. For instance, you claim that Jesus saves you from death and brings you into life…etc. I find that when I am struggling with “suffering”, Buddhist Philosophy helps me reduce “suffering”.
“Consider this about Jesus: “This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior the Messiah Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the good news.” ~Apostle Paul (2 Timothy 1)”
While I don’t believe in an afterlife, unless we are talking about a decomposing body in the earth, there are some other religions that have a belief in an afterlife. Islam believes in a Paradise, Judaism doesn’t really deal with the afterlife but refer to it as paradise as well. Buddhism has various levels of Heaven and Hell. It’s pretty interesting to learn about.
“Commit to Jesus as your Master — Jesus is King of God’s country. Jesus is in charge. I am not. Jesus is my Master. I am His slave. This is tough, but it is essential. Nothing happens without this change in how I think and act.”
Why limit yourself? Why call yourself a slave? Your last sentence makes sense. “Nothing happens without”…”change in how I think and act”, you can do this yourself. I understand people sometimes think they need a “gimmick” to get them through things but honestly, if you want to be a good person or accomplish things, you can do this!
“Begin to radically change how you think and change your mind — This is known as repenting. Commit to how to live a new LIFE. The truth is you are wrong about lots of things. I am as well. What if you are wrong about LIFE? Please step back. You are in fact very wrong. I had to change how I was thinking. You do as well.”
Exactly! I have radically changed how I think! By the way, “What if I am wrong” sounds like you are talking about Pascals Wager. What if you are wrong and selected the Christian God instead of the Islamic or the god of Judea? Maybe there is a god but that god is not the god of the bible you follow or maybe he is just technically an all together different god? Wouldn’t it make sense to learn about all religions to cover all your bases?
“Become a disciple — Salvation is the start, not the end. Jesus calls me to learn (aka be a disciple). One important part of learning that Jesus is King of God’s country is to learn about LIFE. This is journey. I radically changed how I think, and I learn from Jesus, who is King of God’s country.”
One thing I do… and this is outside of religion. I try to improve the lives of the people around me so that my community is a happy place. I hope by doing this, other people catch on and they work to improve the lives of people around them.
“Hear what Jesus says — When you hear Jesus, you hear about LIFE. Jesus is clear. Read the four Good News books (aka Gospels); Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Read them again. Read them every day. Get what Jesus is saying into your heart and soul. Talk with God, your Father and with Jesus. Ask to hear the truth. Jesus is the TRUTH.”
Here what other religions say! Read the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold path! Learn about the Tao. Read all you can about Philosophy and share a larger concept of truth.
“Jesus (and God) say our job is to love — That means we are to love LIFE. There aren’t any exceptions. Jesus does not say it is okay to love everyone but the atheist. Jesus is clear He is the way to God.”
Ditto…Buddha, Krishna.. et al.
“Consider the Apostle John: “We know that we have passed from death to LIFE because we love our brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.” It is easy to think it is okay to kill the unborn when you “remain in death” yourself. This isn’t being harsh. Love requires some pain in recognizing our own condition.”
…ditto… previous response.
“Is it really an issue of faith?”
Faith… The Greek Goddess?
“The big final thing is the “day of judgement” — I will stand before God. So will you. I will answer for love and LIFE. Will I hear “Good and faithful slave” from Jesus? Will you?
So what will happen? I am confident, based on this journey, you will decide in favor of LIFE. …. If you don’t, please let me know what else I can do to be of help.”
Thank you for passing on the “Good News” and being a disciple for what you believe. I don’t want to talk badly about what you believe but from where i am standing, I see a bigger picture.
“…were I to be the founder of a new sect. I would call them Apiarians, and, after the example of the bee, advise them to extract the honey of every sect. my fundamental principle would be the reverse of Calvin’s, that we are to be saved by our good works which are within our power, and not by our faith which is not within our power. I salute you with respect and good-will.” -Thomas Jefferson
If you wish to explore other religions, including non-religions such as Atheism, I can certainly give you information as time allows.
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