I woke up in the middle of the night for this one and had to get my thoughts out. I welcome your comments on the topic because I am still sorting things out myself.
There is a grand ole debate between theists and atheists. Many misuse logic, utilize word salad and go to great lengths to prove the other wrong. The only conclusion I ever see come from these debates is, the theist can no more prove their god than the atheist can disprove the theist claim.
When it comes down to the Big Bang vs Creation, no one can honestly state for a fact the exact cause for the universe. Sure there are creation theories, scientific theories, some conjecture and some stories in a variety of religious text but none of this is absolute proof. We are left to decide which is true and normally it follows our worldview.
The same thing could be said for a “god”…
(Note: There could be many definitions for a god but I will stick with the Abrahamic (God of Christian, Judea, Islam) God. (First definition I found: “the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.”))
…No Matter how you slice it, there is no definitive proof of a god and to use use a theist argument, how can you really know there is no god unless you know everything. I understand that upon making this statement, it could lead to a never ending debate.. and that is the point. The debate always leads to one side never being able to convince the other and thus, there is no definitive proof of either claim.
If, intellectually, we cannot determine the positive or negative existence of a god, why do a majority of people take a positive or negative position? The same could be said about how the world came to be. Of course, in this case, those taking a positive claim to god generally go with the creation claim.
I’m looking for a term to describe the middle ground in the examples above. Would agnosticism be the best term? A quick search on the interwebs 🙂 produced a few websites that stated agnosticism is not really accurate to describe this neutral position (Rather, they called it a weak position) but I found it fit well. If there is another term for it, please share your thoughts.
This was not written to debate the fine points of the God debate or how the world came to be but to be able to put a term to the middle ground. and perhaps discuss said middle ground.
Story4today 
I think agnosticism is as accurate a term as you’ll find. I usually define myself as an atheist, but sometimes use the term agnostic because I just don’t know. I don’t see this stance as a weakness at all – in fact, to admit what you don’t know is a strength in the face of so many who insist that they know everything.
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Thanks for your response. People who insist on knowing everything is probably the reason I am reviewing this topic. I just keep thinking “how do you know..”
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This is why I am atheist. If atheists cannot prove God doesn’t exist and theists cannot prove God does exists, I feel it is much better to side with atheism. Why would anybody want to stand up for a God that makes his presence almost impossible to acknowledge? Let alone worship such a God
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I see your point.I feel the person who believes in god is making, as they say, is making an extraordinary claim. Unless we are satisfied with their evidence, we are not under an obligation to defend our stance.
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is this post possibly prompted from the insanity of Truthbombs? he just may be the most dishonest and ‘shifty’ internet apologetics on WP. i see from his several posts that a few people have tried to get thru to him the error of his position (ie. forcing a definition of atheism that puts the burden to ‘prove’ that god doesn’t exist) but alas, he won’t listen. i think he understands and knows what he is doing is dishonest, but he goes on and on doing it anyway. frustrating. -KIA
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People like Truthbomb are o̶f̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶n̶u̶t̶t̶y̶ ̶r̶o̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ suffering. lol. However, I have always felt, when considering Creation vs Big Bang, that they are both interesting theories but no one can say for sure what caused the universe. While I think that way, I side more with a scientific explanation rather than some “god” breathed it into existence.
I wanted to look at the god vs. no-god debate in a similar way. While I call myself an atheist and don’t believe in any gods, how could one be absolutely sure?
I’m trying to separate myself from the equation. There are people to the Left in politics, there are people to the Right in politics and then you have some people in the middle. Trying to be objective.
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i think the middle ground of agnosticism is a much better position. i still believe there might be a god or gods, but if there were, i don’t think we would ever know or be able to demonstrate it. at that point, it really is all about ‘faith’, mostly against the evidence to the contrary. it becomes almost an irrelevant question.
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I like the middle ground 🙂 but again, if someone is making an extraordinary claim, I can see myself in the middle at first but if after weighing the evidence, If they are unable to demonstrate it’s truthfulness, I would dismiss it.. taking the atheist side, per se. (I hope that made sense)
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same song, different nutjob… try our solidrockapologetics.wordpress.com
seems to be a bit better behaved, but he’s also still hopelessly devoted to inanity
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I was reading another apologetic blog and felt inclined to respond BUT the turned off their commenting, they claim, because of the responses they were receiving. Why post something if you have no reason to educate or defend yourself?!
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i see that too. alot. or they delete contrary comments or information as ‘offensive’. the truth ™ isn’t defensible so they just block comments and input that calls for defense
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I see a lot of my arguments and theories in you, which is great news, I am not alone. Yes I think I am an agnostic as well as I don’t know, I take an extra stance on it as well. If you read my blog/story “the dreaded c word”, where analyse death, religion and for it doesn’t really matter, if there is an after life or we go to heaven or hell. Why I do good (deeds) is not for the dangling carrot but just because it is the right thing to do.
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I haven’t read through all of them yet, figured I would respond first. Have you read my theory of the afterlife? I posted my theory on facebook at one point that went something like this…
When we die, we are buried, we become the hummus of the earth, we become the fertilizer, the top soil, the sand and soil… we become the air and the water, the grass and the trees… It was a few paragraphs and if one looks at it objectively, this is exactly what happens!… see what happens when someone mentioned “After life”, lol
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No I haven’t read your blog on afterlife, I might do that shortly. It is nearing end of financial year, over here in Australia, My actual profession is accounts (the one that pays the bills) Reading blogs seems to relive me of the stress
I was born to Hindu parents. and still dragged along to the temple etc. Well, I went to an all girls catholic school run by nuns, was born in a Buddhist country where Practicing Buddhists had no idea what Buddhism was really about. Anyway coming back to being buried, we get cremated. we become top soil/ fertilizer pretty quickly. lol
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Essentially agnosticism just describes whether anyone can conclusively know whether or not there are deities out there. It describes the nature of the debate from a stricter philosophical perspective, because philosophy is kind of picky like that. If one wants to leave the debate there, that’s entirely fine.
Nonetheless, I still describe myself as an atheist. My level of certainty is not absolute, but I am comfortable with that. It’s the same level of comfort that enables me to not worry about multi-colored space ponies coming to steal my brains, or that lets me walk in the rain with the confidence that it’s not paint thinner that’s falling from the sky this time.
The level of certainty is where I think the debate really lies. People will have to answer that for themselves, and determine how comfortable they are with what they can’t conclusively prove.
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The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards being agnostic leaning atheist. We may never have the knowledge of the existence of a god, the theist has failed to convince me… err, this is probably the reason why I hate labels, lol
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Hi, David K. Great to have found your blog! Love your topic, agnosticism. I’m a deconverted Christian and somewhat agnostic, though I suspect there’s “something more” as William James put it. Don’t believe in the biblical God or much of anything the like. I see this world and universe as rockin’ on, doin’ its thing without any detectable intervention. Oh, but my temperament and personality so desire to believe in something more. I imagine I will come to some satisfying resolution regarding spirituality, but, like SB, perfect certainty will not be a part of it. I think that leaves us open to grow, whereas certainty closes us off from any other perspective.
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Thanks for your thoughts and welcome to my blog! I once considered myself Catholic but really didn’t find the bible, Gods..etc very credible. While I talk about agnosticism, at the end of the day, I am an atheist.
I do like to learn about religions and debate sometimes but … the debating is starting to get tiring. Not sure how many times one can argue the same things over and over again 🙂
If you read some of my blog, I’m pretty random jumping from Buddhism, to Agnosticism/Atheism to hiking on the Appalachian trail.
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Great post. Check out my current and upcoming theological theological posts. Follow for follow! Thanks!
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Thanks for your response. I spent some time reviewing your blog to see if it would fit my list of blogs to follow.
Sorry to inform you that it does not fit the criteria.
I love theological discussions but not when someone is biased and claims their religious belief is better than everyone else. Politics is also a downer, especially when the blog that posts onsided comments. Or shows discrimination of other people.
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I have just been searching for ‘Agnostic’ and found this. I sense you might be interested in the thoughts of an uneducated 81 year old who has a bit of a reputation for asking some of the awkward questions to which there are no easy answers.
https://outsidethegoldfishbowl.wordpress.com/christians-agnostics-and-atheists/
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I don’t know if there was a primary mover. I used to think Christianity was the way. I had a very well constructed world view. It was cynical enough to mingle with “unbelievers,” and Christian enough to feel safe from condemnation, right on the knifes edge. Anyway if there is a God out there I remain open and wanting to know it. But I no longer claim that I know, or convince myself of it.
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Ha! I just responded to your blog and see you responded to mine.
My thoughts may have changed since I wrote this blog. My opinion is that I have never had enough evidence to believe the theists story of a god. I would go so far as to say that there isn’t one. But I will leave it open to evaluate any additional evidence that I am provided with. In the meantime, I’ll just have fun learning about world religions and discussing my view points when I can. 🙂
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Lol. Sounds good dave, same here. And I just responded to your reply lol. Take care
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